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91
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Diane CBPFC on March 07, 2019, 05:53:53 AM »
Home Schooling can work - so can public schooling - so can private schooling - so can charter schools - so can tutoring - so can boarding schools - so can unschooling. That is why people pick what works for them if they are fortunate enough to be able to financially and geographically have any choice (most people don't have a choice) - everyone thinks what they are doing is best for their kids.

Live and let live.



 
92
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Tarquin Thunderthighs lll on March 07, 2019, 12:44:09 AM »
Do you seriously, seriously believe...?


Are you saying that...?


Are you saying...?


Can you not see...?


Four stupid extrapolations in a row is quite possibly a new record, even for you, that amazing genius, Mincey.


What I know is that countless families who have radically unschooled have raised well-adjusted children who have frequently gone on to achieve much more than most of those who attend school.

Yes, but there all rubbish at ball-kicking-waste-of-time.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE KIDS!!!
93
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Mince on March 06, 2019, 09:10:01 PM »
Kitchens are not play areas at all. You need to teach your children this.

Do you seriously, seriously believe any parent would let his or her children play or learn in places that are not safe? The quote from Psychology Today states quite clearly that parents should provide a safe environment in which children can learn by themselves.


Believe it. And I am far from alone in that.

Are you saying that school left you so clueless that you still would prefer to play ball-kicking-waste-of-time and watch cartoons than study? How is that an endorsement of school?


Because I had no idea what technical drawing even was until my first week at secondary school. Someone had to show me.

Are you saying that by secondary school your schooling had stripped of the initiative and desire to find out what kind of things you could learn?


I have no idea what your sarcasm is referring to here. Teach me what it means.

Can you not see an overarching theme in your anecdotes and observations of school that suggests the whole experience might have retarded your progress? Can you not see that to pick up merely a 'little knowledge' of mathematics, geography, history and the sciences, a huge portion of what the school is trying to teach you, is hardly an endorsement for attending school?


You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "stand back and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work.

What I know is that countless families who have radically unschooled have raised well-adjusted children who have frequently gone on to achieve much more than most of those who attend school.
94
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Tarquin Thunderthighs lll on March 06, 2019, 07:36:59 PM »
Ah, so all this is so you can put your feet up and do bugger all at home whilst pretending you're educating your children. I get it now.  ..0

Isn't that what you did when you sent your children to school? ..0

Probably...for about an hour, enjoying the peace. Then I went to work.

Tell me something. If your child reaches up to grab a boiling pot from a stove, do you do nothing and let it learn that's not a good idea. Or do you intervene and teach it stop it, then tell it why?

From Psychology Today: ... It is our responsibility to be sure that children have ... non-toxic places to play ...

Kitchens are not play areas at all. You need to teach your children this.

Left to my own devices, I'd have undoubtedly been better at ball-kicking-waste-of-time (but still not good enough to be a pro), and much more knowledgeable about TV cartoons.

The fact that you have no doubts does not make it true. And I can't believe you would have been that stupid.

Believe it. And I am far from alone in that.


I'd almost certainly never have engaged in technical/engineering drawing, which was by far and away my favourite subject at school, and one that has helped me enormously in my chosen profession, even though that deviated from the more traditional occupations associated with the subject.

Why do you think an unschooled child cannot learn technical drawing, and at an earlier age than you did at school?

Because I had no idea what technical drawing even was until my first week at secondary school. Someone had to show me.


I never intended to become a historian, mathematician, scientist or geographer, but I'm grateful for the little knowledge of each I was given, and enjoyed learning about things I'd never have found interesting as a child.

So, you attended school. You never found them interesting. Gee, there must be a connection there.

I have no idea what your sarcasm is referring to here. Teach me what it means.


I would not have sought it out on my own, as a child.

This is what school does to children.

Good job, too.

You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "stand back and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work.

You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "send them to school and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work. What's it like having words put into your mouth?

Again, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. None at all.
95
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Mince on March 06, 2019, 05:48:26 PM »
Ah, so all this is so you can put your feet up and do bugger all at home whilst pretending you're educating your children. I get it now.  ..0

Isn't that what you did when you sent your children to school? ..0


Tell me something. If your child reaches up to grab a boiling pot from a stove, do you do nothing and let it learn that's not a good idea. Or do you intervene and teach it stop it, then tell it why?

From Psychology Today: ... It is our responsibility to be sure that children have ... non-toxic places to play ...


Left to my own devices, I'd have undoubtedly been better at ball-kicking-waste-of-time (but still not good enough to be a pro), and much more knowledgeable about TV cartoons.

The fact that you have no doubts does not make it true. And I can't believe you would have been that stupid.


I'd almost certainly never have engaged in technical/engineering drawing, which was by far and away my favourite subject at school, and one that has helped me enormously in my chosen profession, even though that deviated from the more traditional occupations associated with the subject.

Why do you think an unschooled child cannot learn technical drawing, and at an earlier age than you did at school?


I never intended to become a historian, mathematician, scientist or geographer, but I'm grateful for the little knowledge of each I was given, and enjoyed learning about things I'd never have found interesting as a child.

So, you attended school. You never found them interesting. Gee, there must be a connection there.


I would not have sought it out on my own, as a child.

This is what school does to children.


You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "stand back and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work.

You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "send them to school and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work. What's it like having words put into your mouth?
96
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Tarquin Thunderthighs lll on March 06, 2019, 05:25:58 PM »
Ah, so all this is so you can put your feet up and do bugger all at home whilst pretending you're educating your children. I get it now.  ..0

Tell me something. If your child reaches up to grab a boiling pot from a stove, do you do nothing and let it learn that's not a good idea. Or do you intervene and teach it stop it, then tell it why?

No, I really don't want to see more 'proof' (the quote you posted was not proof of anything - it was a speech...and I couldn't listen to the video for more than a minute because of the background noise), because I'm not denying that children can learn many things by themselves, in childhood and well beyond (I'm still learning). Up to a point. Having the discipline to do it is another matter, when the choice to have noneducational fun is available and free. Left to my own devices, I'd have undoubtedly been better at ball-kicking-waste-of-time (but still not good enough to be a pro), and much more knowledgeable about TV cartoons. I'd almost certainly never have engaged in technical/engineering drawing, which was by far and away my favourite subject at school, and one that has helped me enormously in my chosen profession, even though that deviated from the more traditional occupations associated with the subject. I never intended to become a historian, mathematician, scientist or geographer, but I'm grateful for the little knowledge of each I was given, and enjoyed learning about things I'd never have found interesting as a child. Occasionally, the knowledge still comes in useful, although mostly at pub quizzes admittedly (but not exclusively). I would not have sought it out on my own, as a child.

But all of that aside, once again, the children are the concern, not the worry. You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "stand back and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work.
97
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Mince on March 06, 2019, 03:20:51 PM »
But also, regardless of your faith in children to educate themselves (which I'm less convinced by than you are, beyond a certain level and/or direction), there will always be the chance that parents will simply take it upon themselves to teach kids utter garbage.

From Psychology Today (emphasis is mine): As adults we do have certain responsibilities toward our children and the world's children. It is our responsibility to create safe, health-promoting, respectful environments in which children can develop. It is our responsibility to be sure that children have proper foods, fresh air, non-toxic places to play, and lots of opportunities to interact freely with other people across the whole spectrum of ages. It is our responsibility to be models of human decency. But one thing we do not have to worry about is how to educate children.

We do not have to worry about curricula, lesson plans, motivating children to learn, testing them, and all the rest that comes under the rubric of pedagogy. Lets turn that energy, instead, toward creating decent environments in which children can play. Children's education is children's responsibility, not ours. Only they can do it. They are built to do it. Our task regarding education is just to stand back and let it happen. The more we try to control it, the more we interfere.

There's more proof should you wish to read it.

And then here's a video to start you off:

98
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Tarquin Thunderthighs lll on March 06, 2019, 02:09:00 PM »
School also taught me how to play many sports that I still love today, and how to be a team player. Attempts at a musical education failed, sadly, but not for want of me trying...and enjoying, or the efforts to teach me. School developed my artistic skills where my parents could not, and taught me how to cope with large social occasions as well as smaller ones, and have the confidence to even stand out within those contexts at times.

Not necessarily within the classrooms either. School is so much more than learning facts and practical skills. Outside the classroom (and occasionally within it), I learned how to maintain friendships, stand up to bullies, and even love. School was a grounding for the rest of my life, and an invaluable bridge between home and work.

I met many other children who became friends, some for life. I'm currently on a committee organising a reunion of my year group from '71-'77 for this October, which has attracted a lot of interest, and if the joy of the actual event comes anywhere near to the fun we've had at our committee meetings so far, it will be a huge success. It was only 5-6 years of our lives, but the memories, mostly good, are very strong for us all, and deemed worthy by many former pupils travelling from far-flung places to relive for one evening later this year.

I accept that for some, school was and is a wretched institution, for a variety of reasons. Nothing is perfect, but that in itself is an invaluable lesson for life.
99
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Tarquin Thunderthighs lll on March 06, 2019, 01:37:04 PM »
Okay, I've defined it over and over again.

Abusers, yes. Bigots, yes.

But also, regardless of your faith in children to educate themselves (which I'm less convinced by than you are, beyond a certain level and/or direction), there will always be the chance that parents will simply take it upon themselves to teach kids utter garbage. None of this is about the kids, other than what's in their best interests - it's all about the parents. And even the best-intentioned and most loving of parents could still end up mis-teaching their kids through their own ignorance. I don't think I could have done it. My eldest daughter has just been promoted to head of science at the secondary school she teaches in. She'd never have got there if either her mother or me had decided to home-school her along with her sisters.

Children need guidance from adults, otherwise they'd leave home at around 3-years of age. Parents can and do guide their children, but as they grow, most parents are very happy to hand over some of that to others trained in how to take their children further. Not all of these adults are born to the role, but some are utterly brilliant at it. I can still name you all of mine, more than 40 years on from when I last enjoyed their lessons.
100
Outpourings / Re: Home Schooling
« Last post by Mince on March 06, 2019, 12:11:39 PM »
So, what if those bad parents chose to home school? That’s the whole point here.

Can we please always define what you mean by "bad"?

If you mean those who might abuse or indoctrinate their children, as I already said, I am with you on dealing with them, but disagree that home inspections would work. I have already given what I believe to be two better solutions.

If you mean those who are unable to provide their children with a good education, there are none, since children do not need parents in order to learn.
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