Author Topic: Home Schooling  (Read 1177 times)

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2019, 09:18:53 AM »
Not quite. I genuinely believe that although you’re probably right that the large majority of parents who opt to home school are well intentioned, responsible and up to the task, when you’re dealing with the potential disaster that could arise through those that are not, from inadequate teaching to abuse, inspection by professional agencies is essential. In fact, I’m astonished to hear it isn’t already in place. And not a little worried.

You believe that a child's learning depends on the teaching ability of their parents. The vast majority of home educated students who enter university do not have parents who are good at teaching. The students teach themselves from books and online courses. It's not that difficult. I know you find this very hard to comprehend but before you assume that home educated students need to be taught by their parents, read some accounts from real-life unschooled students.

As for abuse, I believe inspections by well meaning but underfunded and undertrained officials will achieve very very little if anything at all, but might create a 'disaster' of unintended consequences.


examples of unintended consequences

Something needs to be done about safety in cars. Airbags are something we can do. Therefore, we will install airbags. [unintended consequence of increase in child fatalities in the mid-1990s as small children were being hit by deploying airbags during collisions]

Something needs to be done about children killed by airbags. Moving the child seat to the back of the vehicle is something we can do. Therefore, let's move the child seat to the back. [unintended consequence is children forgotten in unattended vehicles, some of whom died under extreme temperature conditions]

Something needs to be done about the number of venomous cobra snakes in Delhi. Offering a bounty for every dead cobra is something we can do. Therefore, we will offer a bounty. [unintended consequence was enterprising people breeding cobras for income, such that when the reward program was scrapped and the breeders set the cobras free, the cobra population further increased]

There are orphans and mentally ill who need to be cared for. Offering $2.25 per day per mentally ill and $0.75 a day per orphan is something we can do. Therefore, we will offer the money to the Catholic Church. [unintended consequence was the church diagnosing orphans as mentally ill to receive the larger amount of money: Duplessis Orphans]

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2019, 10:58:11 AM »
All of those measures have also saved lives. That's the bit you conveniently ignore. And the abuses are caused by bad people in the latter two. The unintentional consequences should not stop the intended aims, even if they need constant revision until the system is right. When things need to be done, doing nothing is still the worst option.

I do not believe that learning is entirely dependent on the parents at all. But I do believe that bad parenting can (and does) impede a child's development. It should be checked, and yes, that means from infancy too. In fact, it is checked to some degree, when children attend doctors or are admitted to hospital, and hopefully warning signs aren't missed. I'm talking about extreme situations here, although perhaps not that extreme in terms of the education part. But in the latter's case, inspections would be about guidance and help, not necessarily active intervention. The good parents should have no qualms about taking the same hit in order to protect the few who need help/intervention. Or are a few casualties worth the privacy?
I apologise, in advance.

Offline Diane CBPFC

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2019, 11:57:34 PM »
I homeschooled my kids up until the last three years of high school. I thought it was best that they had records on file for Uni for the high school years and learn what it was like giving expected answers. Although the choice was ours as to how much Alberta curriculum to use (if any) we were required to have two visits per year by a facilitator from the home school board of our choice, from which we got a share of government funding. I considered these people assets rather than inspectors, I felt they were there to help. 
People will come from strange lands to hear me speak my words of wisdom. They will ask me the secret of life and I will tell them. Then maybe I'll finish off with a song. The Nomad

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2019, 09:53:30 AM »
I'm glad your view was positive.

I have to wonder how you would have felt if there had been no funding and you did not consider them assets.

Thankfully, in the UK, your right to educate your child without intrusion from whatever half-wits the Local Education Authority might send your way is enshrined in law. Provided you send a letter to them outlining how you intend to educate them, your garden gate is as far as they can get. Having said that, there have been some bullying tactics from some of the goons from the LEA, but the more savvy of parents have told them where to get off.

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2019, 01:39:20 PM »
Perhaps it might add some perspective if you were to consider not automatically prejudging the authorities as goons, half-wits and bullies, and gave credence to the possibility at least, that some very small percentage of parents wishing to home school may well be just that?
I apologise, in advance.

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2019, 02:58:44 PM »
Perhaps it might add some perspective if you were to consider not automatically prejudging the authorities as goons, half-wits and bullies, and gave credence to the possibility at least, that some very small percentage of parents wishing to home school may well be just that?

I actually did not follow that last part in bold.

Offline Diane CBPFC

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2019, 08:42:27 PM »
I'm glad your view was positive.

I have to wonder how you would have felt if there had been no funding and you did not consider them assets.

Thankfully, in the UK, your right to educate your child without intrusion from whatever half-wits the Local Education Authority might send your way is enshrined in law. Provided you send a letter to them outlining how you intend to educate them, your garden gate is as far as they can get. Having said that, there have been some bullying tactics from some of the goons from the LEA, but the more savvy of parents have told them where to get off.

From experience, it is not the best idea to model a distaste and lack of respect for those in authority to one's children. Most people are doing the best they can and go into those fields because they want to make a difference. The funding was very helpful but in our case we were looking at putting a 5 year old on a bus for up to 3 hours each day so chose to Kindergarten at home for that reason alone.
People will come from strange lands to hear me speak my words of wisdom. They will ask me the secret of life and I will tell them. Then maybe I'll finish off with a song. The Nomad

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2019, 10:13:48 AM »
Perhaps it might add some perspective if you were to consider not automatically prejudging the authorities as goons, half-wits and bullies, and gave credence to the possibility at least, that some very small percentage of parents wishing to home school may well be just that?

I actually did not follow that last part in bold.

My inadequate education - sorry.

I was referring to the possibility that some home-schooling parents may themselves be half-witted bullying goons in need of inspection, in contrast to what appeared to be an assumption by you that all or most of those that would be employed by LEAs are, almost by definition, similarly afflicted.
I apologise, in advance.

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2019, 09:23:03 AM »
From experience, it is not the best idea to model a distaste and lack of respect for those in authority to one's children.

I shall be teaching my children about Albert Einstein, who said: Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2019, 09:35:12 AM »
I was referring to the possibility that some home-schooling parents may themselves be half-witted bullying goons in need of inspection

I dare say some are, just as some parents who send their children to school are half-witted bullying goons.

For bullying, we already have laws and powers in place to deal with child abuse: we do not need prejudice concerning the home-schooled.

For schooling, the law requires that parents provide an education suitable for the child's age, and any evidence suggesting otherwise gives the courts the power to send the child to one of our underachieving schools: inspections would be costly, disproportionate, potentially damaging, and ineffective; and it's no one's business except the parents on what constitutes an education suitable for their child's age.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 09:41:47 AM by Mince »

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2019, 04:52:28 PM »
I shall be teaching my children about Albert Einstein, who said: Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.

There's a difference between unthinking respect, and presupposing that incompetence is the default characteristic of all childcare professionals. Caution is no bad thing. Blanket condemnation is simply wrong.
I apologise, in advance.

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2019, 05:01:41 PM »
I was referring to the possibility that some home-schooling parents may themselves be half-witted bullying goons in need of inspection

I dare say some are, just as some parents who send their children to school are half-witted bullying goons.

Quite. But at least their children get a break from them while they're at school, and have a better chance of not turning out like those parents.

For bullying, we already have laws and powers in place to deal with child abuse: we do not need prejudice concerning the home-schooled.

But it's okay to be prejudiced against LEAs and their employees? I've gone out of my way to stress that I don't think there would be any problem with the vast majority of home-schoolers. Which is more than can be said about your opinion of educational authority employees.

For schooling, the law requires that parents provide an education suitable for the child's age, and any evidence suggesting otherwise gives the courts the power to send the child to one of our underachieving schools: inspections would be costly, disproportionate, potentially damaging, and ineffective; and it's no one's business except the parents on what constitutes an education suitable for their child's age.

So you don't think some parents might be better equipped to judge this than others?
I apologise, in advance.

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2019, 08:58:39 PM »
There's a difference between unthinking respect, and presupposing that incompetence is the default characteristic of all childcare professionals. Caution is no bad thing. Blanket condemnation is simply wrong.

The moment a childcare representative appears unsolicited at the door to check a child's educational progress, he is overstepping his authority and is therefore incompetent.

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2019, 09:05:25 PM »
There's a difference between unthinking respect, and presupposing that incompetence is the default characteristic of all childcare professionals. Caution is no bad thing. Blanket condemnation is simply wrong.

The moment a childcare representative appears unsolicited at the door to check a child's educational progress, he is overstepping his authority and is therefore incompetent.

Is that your best shot? Obviously, that isn't going to happen with the law as it currently stands. Question is, what are you going to do if it changes? How's the bunker shaping up?  ;D
I apologise, in advance.

Offline Mince

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Re: Home Schooling
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2019, 09:16:58 PM »
But at least their children get a break from them while they're at school, and have a better chance of not turning out like those parents.

I dare say unschooled children know much better ways to get a break from their parents than attending school. I dare say those who attend school also know much better ways.

Why is it wrong to turn out like your parents? And why does going to school ensure that you don't?


But it's okay to be prejudiced against LEAs and their employees?

Yes, I do if they believe they have the right or the ability to check whether an unschooled child is getting a good education.


I've gone out of my way to stress that I don't think there would be any problem with the vast majority of home-schoolers. Which is more than can be said about your opinion of educational authority employees.

I have only good things to say about LEA employees who don't exceed their authority.


So you don't think some parents might be better equipped to judge this than others?

I don't think an unschooled child's education depends on anything to do with their parents.

Some who radically unschool do not force their children to learn anything they do not wish to, and yet these children manage to read entirely on their own, some before they are 5 and some as late as 11. They do this in exactly the same way they learn to speak their mother tongue by age 3.

Children can learn without having to be taught.

The girl who learned to read by 11 loves that she did this herself, and wrote a book and won poetry competitions before the age of 14.

I wonder whether an LEA inspector who would have condemned her parents as inadequate had they inspected the girl at the age of 10, still unable to read, would equally condemn every school as inadequate had they inspected the children at the age of 14, still unable to write competition-winning poetry or write a book.